In the second video of Iranti’s five-part conversation series about the draft Hate Crimes and Hate Speech Bill, we sat down with Dr. Kelly Gillespie, a senior lecturer in the Department of Anthropology at WITS University. Based on more than 20 years of academic research on South Africa’s criminal justice system, Dr. Gillespie explains her primary concern with the Bill: its reliance on criminalisation and incarceration as a deterrent to crime and violence, which she strongly critiques. Stay tuned to the series for more conversations and perspectives on the draft Bill: